1969 Pontiac GTO

400

Automatic

1969 GTO JUDGE ORIGINAL FLOORS, TRUNK FLOOR, INNER SHEETMETAL, QUARTER PANELS AND YZ BLOCK CODE RAM AIR III ENGINE A VERY IMPRESSIVE AND BEAUTIFUL CAR XXX This is our 1969 GTO Judge - I have included a copy of the PHS document that indicates it to be a Ram Air III, Hood Tach, Hidden Headlight Judge The car looks awesome The following webpage and pictorial will be a lengthy read with all information and disclosures I can think of. It is hard enough to make a determination on purchasing something over the internet, especially something like a kind of pricey vehicle, so I will provide as much detail as possible at the risk of seeming wordy or repetitive with over 83 pictures, 3 videos and thousands of words of written text Many extra parts come with the car including several new in the box items, 2 engines (original bore Ram Air III on the stand and the engine that is currently in the car), trim parts, spare AC setup and more Feel free to contact me with any questions about this car and include a phone number if you want detailed answers - it is far easier to communicate via telephone as opposed to email when many specifics need to be addressed I am also selling our rare 1972 Trans Am project in another listing - I would be open to offers on a package deal for the two XXX This car is mostly original and by original I mean original 1969 Pontiac GTO, but not necessarily the parts that originally came on this particular car. That is something you don't hear very many of the sellers of "all original numbers matching" cars come right out and say now do you, especially the ones that just grafted a disintegrated car back together, and are trying to sell it as all original, but is obviously true of a vast percentage of the cars out there. This car however IS NOT one of those previously rusted out, destroyed and grafted back together cars, but it is likely a combination of parts and other cars from over the years. If it is a combination of cars I see indication anywhere of crash damage at all. That being said I do have what appears to be the original YZ Ram Air III engine block that is factory stamped with the original VIN for this car that still has the ORIGINAL BORE, and has never been rebuilt or blown up, on an engine stand and it is included with the sale - the buyer gets TWO engines with the sale of this car - the one that is currently in the car and the Ram Air III. It is the correct May 1969 date code for the June build car, and factory VIN stamped, 4 bolt drilled block with 2 bolt caps, 16 heads that are dated earlier than the block and correct intake dated 6 months before the block, full length windage tray, center drain oil pan, and the RAIV numbered crankshaft for some reason. That engine comes with no other ancillary parts, but the engine that is in the car now has most of them on it. Some time in the 1980s this car had a state assigned VIN put on it as far as we can determine due to registration issues. I have obtained certified documents from a Secretary of State record check to prove this fact. I have included pictures of these documents at the end of the webpage and they are all to be supplied to the buyer. This assigned vin was attached when these cars had very little value so it was obviously done without any future collector interest in mind or to make the car into something it wasn't. We were able to find a full vin on the block for authentication purposes. Every date code we have found on this car from the block to the ring gear and the axle, to the windshield wiper motor and cowl tag coincides with the PHS information. This car passed a Missouri State ID check with flying colors which is State Law required by the Highway Patrol when a vehicle is brought into the state when we titled it , it was clearly marked as a GTO on the title, and it is insured with a major collector car insurer as a 1969 GTO Judge for the current 2012 full NADA value of $147,000.00 with the blessings of their appraiser (see paperwork). It has features that are GTO specific like it's original quarter panels with the GTO side markers and the"242" car data plate matching the VIN and PHS - all providing positive proof that this car is and always has been a true GTO. XXX The body on this car is very solid and was solid before we did any restoration work on it. I have a web document available to serious buyers (mainly current bidders) that I can provide a link to that shows the car as it looked when we bought it, stripped down to go to the bodyshop, in the bodyshop, and during assembly. It is fairly detailed and lengthy read as well, but shows how little deterioration there was on this car to begin with. It was DEFINITELY NOT one of those cars that was rusted through everywhere requiring a rotisserie and new floors, unibody substructures, or worse yet entire sides or roofs to be replaced in order to recreate a factory paper tagged 'numbers matching' car that wound up probably half as thick of a gauge of steel than it was originally from all the sandblasting and repair work. This car has all its original floors and trunk that are very solid. It has original sheetmetal including rear quarters - the rear quarters were repaired with lower repair panels and this procedure is all documented on the above mentioned webpage. There are no other aftermarket body panels. Even the rear inner quarters and wheel houses are original and they attach with smooth seams to the new patch panels - this car is not perfect, but it is very nice in these respects Overall this car is considered by many knowledgeable collectors to be very nice. The original color of the car was Carousal Red with a Parchment interior. It is now Cameo Ivory with a Dark Blue (metallic Indigo colored) interior. While doing some "Automotive Archeology" when the bodywork was done we found evidence of some of the red and we also found evidence of a very thorough blue and white two tone repaint apparently done very early in the cars life (exposed rear wheelhouse areas, interior package tray overshoot and all) under the last white paintjob that was on the car when we got it. We have pictures of this on the "project" webpage. It is also possible that this car is a combination of more than one car done in the early 1980s. For instance, the passengers door was apparently from a convertible since it had the vert alignment wedges on it, car has AC, but not indicated on PHS, the paint and interior colors, etc.... No matter what, whatever was done to the car was done a long time ago way before the prices escalated to ridiculous levels. This car was parked in the 80s when these cars cost 800-1200 bucks and was left untouched for a long period of time so there certainly wasn't a ulterior motive behind any of the changes done then. XXX The front Endura bumper is straight and has the correct geometry like when the car was new relative to the body lines and the bumper points - not the typical bent under front point that is so commonly seen on these cars from light front end impacts in parking lots or garages. The headlight covers stay up on their own and open fine - there is a video showing this at the bottom of the page. They will close if you help them up just a little bit by hand. All of the original vacuum lines, reservoir can and actuators are in place - no aftermarket items in the hideaways and they still work pretty good - that says something right there There is a slight variance on the drivers side lower valance - I see this on a lot of these cars including the one up for sale at a local car museum for 100K. A small ding is by the front license plate mount - it is very minor. Also we have the lower grilles for the valance, but had not installed them at the time of these pictures. All of the lights work, but the horns are not working. This is one issue the buyer may have to address. All of the major items are already done for a buyer on this car, but a few of the small things may need to be taken care of We have over $30,000.00 in this car not counting the original purchase price. A good portion of that is in the body and paint. While it is not a $20K paint job, it certainly is a very respectable $10K plus paint job with very few flaws. While we were shooting some of these pics small crowds of people gathered and were watching and numerous onlookers approached us. "Beautiful car" was heard many times and I have to tell you it felt really good. The car gets massive attention whenever we bring it out XXX All of the original body lines are present in this car. The subtle bullet shapes in the doors and rear quarter panels are there. The panels are straight and not wavy like many I see up for sale. The cokebottle body shape on these cars is one of my favorites and deserves to look correct. The rear inner wheel houses are original and are firmly attached with smooth edges when you run your fingers around the inside of the wheel arches, the body panels all sound hollow like they should when you tap on them, the bottoms of the doors are perfect and very clean around the drain holes - I will add pictures of this The original rubber plugs and drains are still in place in the inner rear quarter drops - I do have pics of this on the web page showing the bodyshop scenes. The trunk floor is original and perfect. The floorboards are original and in excellent shape - no replacements were needed in this car like so many others and no 'POR15' type reinforcement was needed either. It is very solid. The only holes in the floor where from a set of aftermarket seats were apparently once installed probably back in the 1980s. Those were repaired and are gone. All of the original frame and suspension bushings are still in place and you can clearly read the part numbers on the frame bushings - I do have pics of this on the web page showing the bodyshop scenes. The doors hang nicely with good gaps and they shut very well. All new rubber around the doors and trunk, window rubber is original and worn, however I have brand new pieces that come with the car - it will be up to the buyer to install them. These are probably the worst looking areas of the outside of the car and the biggest negative that could be easily over come with simple replacement. I just didn't install the parts yet.... XXX The car is a front disc brake car and we believe they are the original correct rotors and rear drums, however disc brakes are not indicated on the PHS. They could have been added after the car was new or, as Pontiac Historic Society will tell you, the options they indicate on their paperwork could possibly be different than the way the car was actually built - their words, not ours The car is an Air Conditioned car. This is not indicated on PHS either, but this could very likely be dealer installed air. I have owned several GM cars that have had dealer air (including ones bought NEW by my family) and they all had non air dashboards, like this one, and Harrison boxes with Frigidaire compressors with AC style kick panels with no vents. Again, this car could also be a combination of two cars - If it is I see no indication anywhere of crash damage The AC system is complete and intact including the vintage compressor, brand new Goodyear barrier hoses, hard lines and such, and we were going to do a 134 or Propane retrofit, but have not got around to doing it yet. The rear bumper is a restoration replacement part and the chrome on it is very nice - not off color like many I have seen, and the fit is perfect - the reproducers of this item actually did a good job on that part. The rest of the cast parts have a little patina, but that is what I like about them. The car has a remote drivers mirror that works, but it loses adjustment when the door is shut and it has a little patina too. XXX All original trunk floor, wheelhouses, package tray, frame, bushings, gas tank,etc., back here. I have pics of all of this before we started on the build webpage that I have mentioned several times. This all looked good. I have seen these cars so far gone back here that they were rusted all the way up to the package tray and IT was gone. And the guys take those type cars and piece them all back together and sell them as 'numbers matching all original' cars. Personally I wouldn't own a car like that. I have owned over 150 collector cars in my life and still own several in a permanent collection and a few in a rotating collection and they were all solid original body structure cars. The cars that were sand or soda blasted and then welded back together are a thinner gauge by a large margin than they were when new and naturally not nearly as strong or safe - period. I will take a solid original car any day over one of the rescued disintegrating cars. The rear bumper is a replacement part but is nice as I mentioned, the tail light bezels are original diecast and are pitted. They are the worst part of the rear of the car, but they still look good. I couldn't find a better set and plastic replacements weren't an option for me. All the rear lights work and we ran additional grounds to them to insure they stay working unlike the way the original 'friction ground' system was notorious for breaking connection. Also, the gas tank has a minor dent in it from underneath, but this original tank does not leak a drop, doesn't slosh, doesn't smell like fuel and the gas gauge works most of the time, so I haven't been forced to address it yet. New gas tanks are very affordable, but we already have well over $30K in this car not counting the original purchase price so I am finished spending money on cosmetics, especially ones under the car at this point. As I have mentioned throughout the write up, most of the hard stuff nobody wants to do or take on in a restoration is already done on this car. The simple things that remain are indeed minor. XXX XXX The rear deck lid was in decent shape, but did have a little rust. I have pics of all of this before we started on the build webpage that I have mentioned several times. The trunk lid stays up very easily with the wing weight. New weather stripping around the doors and in the trunk of the car. Window trim is very decent, but not perfect The widow channels were in good shape on this car before we started. No leaks whatsoever and I left the car outside quite a bit for the couple years I used it as a semi-daily driver before we decided to restore it. Never had water in the trunk or inside the car. I have pictures of the window channels before we started work on it on the other webpage. The bottom of the rear window was just starting to get a little rusty when I decided to repaint. The overall appearance of this car is excellent and very impressive as is the driving experience and pride of ownership despite the items I am mentioning. I am concentrating on the few negatives because the multitude of positives are clearly obvious XXXX XXX This is just a very nice looking car - nice paint, nice panel fit, nice everything. Not perfect, but very very nice. XXXX XXX The interior is not the original color like the body, but it is an original 1969 GTO interior aside from the front seat covers which are Legendary. They are built up with a couple of the best Stratobucket original padding sets I had left with a few new springs and a set of Legendary premium covers and shells. I have the original headrests too that are in excellent shape. The rest of the interior is original and shows very nicely. I have over a grand just in the two front seats - things like this are what buyers should consider when looking at cars that still need all this stuff done - it will add up very quick on you The dash has no cracks (another high dollar item buyers should consider), the console and kick panels are in good shape - I have a new headliner that comes with the car, but the original is still in place and is still tight, but it does have a couple pokes. I have a new rear package tray that will be in by next week too. The carpet is decent and appears to be period correct, the steering wheel has no cracks and has an restoration horn button. The horn currently does not work. All other controls work including the vacuum headlight switch. All gauges work, but the gas gauge sticks to full a lot of the time. Also I have a brand new in the box headliner that comes with the car as well as widow rubber for the doors and rear glass The car has a 1980s vintage stereo, and the dash is not cut, which is very nice, but the stereo is not hooked up. Also I do not have an antenna mast for the base that is currently installed. This car was parked and not driven about the time that stereo was put in. It sat in a garage pretty much until the guy we bought it from got it because the last registration decals were early 1980s and everything about the car from the tires to the speakers indicated 1980s XXXX XXXX XXXX XXX Several of the pictures depict the paint finish and depth. Also some shots down the side to display the ZERO waviness in the body panels - this car is straight and pretty! A couple of these pics actually look like magazine shoots or coffee table book photos in several viewers opinions.... Below are the 14 inch Rally II wheels on the car - I used 7 inch wide wheels instead of the 6 inch versions that were original on the car because simply put I cannot stand to drive these big cars on that skinny of a wheel. The wheels are the best and straightest set of Rally II's I had left and look amazing. The correct Argent and Charcoal Gray paint was used on the fronts and the correct machine gray on the rears. I have over $1100 just in wheels, tires, mounting & balancing, original correct lug nuts, center caps and sandblasting, restoration and painting costs. They were worth every single cent XXX XXXX XXXXX XXXXX I shot pictures of the car on several different days and under several different lighting variations and from numerous angles and elevations in order to give interested parties as much visual reference as possible - over 250 photos - there is not enough room with ebays limits to post them all so we narrowed it down as best we could I have included several larger images toward the end of the page XXXXX Under the hood looks very nice - it is actually so clean it is hard to keep it dust free All the hideaway plumbing looks like it is original and even the factory core support to frame seals are still in place - the car even had the original filler panel between the core support and the nose when I bought it, I do have a complete 1969 Ram Air system that I could include for the right offer. It is complete with the correct GM part numbered scoops painted in the correct Cameo Ivory paint. I used this car as a driver before we restored it so it was never installed with the car being in the rain from time to time. The factory firewall penetration for the Ram Air cable is there along with the grommet - it was one of the first things I noticed when we initially looked at the car The AC unit is complete with all new Goodyear barrier hoses and lines - it has not been charged yet as we were going to do a refrigerant conversion, but it is complete and ready for the buyer to pick up on Everything is very nice in the engine bay - the engine and sheetmetal is clean and the paint is holding up very well with several thousand miles on it XXXX XXX XXXXX XXXXX XXXXX XXXXX XXXXX XXXXX XXX Inside the trunk looks very nice - all the inner sheetmetal is original and is very solid. No replacements were needed anywhere on the inside or floor of the car. The trunk lid stays up and opens nicely with the weight of the judge wing. The rear decklid is better than most of them out there - perfect ones are impossible to find this late in the game in 2012. Deck lid alignment is about what I see on many of these cars including former big ticket BJ and Mecum cars The rear package tray deck was modified in the cars past by an amateur for speakers some time back in the 1980s. It is solid and sound and not rusted out like many that are seen on these cars so it is a shame that someone cut on it, and any 6 X 9 speaker should fit easily and would cover any of the modifications. The rear package tray completely covers all this from the top and the car came with the 60s Pontiac cardboard and jute speaker covers underneath so really all of this is a non issue - I just wanted to mention it XXXXX The trunk area is very impressive and is really just as nice as the underhood section of this car All new weather seal back here. The rear bumper, side marker and Judge tailpipe tips look excellent just like new - there is about $600 right there Rear tail light bezels are original and are a little pitted like almost all of them, but they still look presentable. XXX This is a modern more reliable replacement hood tach that I chose a 5500 redline instrument face on because any engine modifications would easily require the higher redline. Most of my other cars do not have anything even close to stock engines and if I were to keep this one it would be getting a roller valve train and decent connecting rods and would obviously then require a higher shift point than the 5100 original tach. A 5100 RPM face is available if the buyer really wants that 100% original look. This tach lights up wonderfully at night and draws plenty of looks. It is fully plumbed into the blower motor box for airflow to combat moisture, fogging or condensation XXXXX One of the few modification from original spec I made was the use of a 1 1/4 inch aftermarket front sway bar and polyurethane bushings. This along with the 7 inch wide wheels make a world of difference on the way these cars handle. Personally I cannot stand to drive these cars with only a one inch front sway bar. I have several of these cars mostly with full aftermarket suspension setups and they are orders of magnitude more enjoyably to drive and far more capable machines when outfitted this way. I kept the original 1 inch bar and all hardware including the original end links for the buyer. Amazingly, the original endlinks unbolted and the collars slipped right off the bolts. This is remarkable because most people familiar with these cars will remember breaking them off due to corrosion way back in the early 1980s and have had the collars literally fuse to the bolts from corrosion. Every single bolt we have removed on this car has come out clean - simply amazing. Also, all of the original bushings are in the frame and suspension and you can clearly read the GM part numbers on the ones that carried part numbers - that says a lot right there XXXXX We opted to not replace any of these existing components because the car drives nice and doesn't make a sound - not a creak or a moan or a pop. The car is a disc brake car and it appears to have the original brake rotors up front. You can tell the shape of the original rotors at the hub area and I have never seen the "tapered" version in the aftermarket replacement parts chain. All of these parts including the shocks are older and the car drives surprisingly nice - you do the math - it was obviously not driven very much at all and certainly not abused We did replace the front and rear wheel bearings and axle bearings and seals and change the rear differential fluid, but the fluid that was drained looked very clear and clean. We inspected all the ball joints and rod ends for play and they checked OK although I recommend a buyer do their own inspections. We also have some new brake components that come with the vehicle for the rear drums. All the brake lines are original and if I were to keep the car I always like to replace them front to rear - something to consider All in all the underside is pretty clean - not 100 point restoration sanded smooth and body puttied clean, but extremely clean for a non restored car XXX Shown to the left and below are the bottom pans and rear wheelhouses. This car was heavily dealer undercoated and that is probably what saved it. That and the fact it probably wasn't driven much especially in the rust belt winter salt fests. The pictures depict the bottom pretty well - some of the undercoat is gone, but everywhere it was picked off solid black factory chassis paint was found underneath. I have some pictures of this on the build page. I left most of it on where it was adhered well. I considered respraying the entire bottom side with new undercoat, but didn't want to be accused of hiding anything, so this is how we left it. I did soak the frame and pan with industrial alkyd paint to tie in the undercoat and protect the non undercoated metal. The front suspension is painted too, but the steering gearbox is still bare, the wires are NOT all oversprayed, the Air Conditioning Evaporator box is NOT all oversprayed, etc. It looks pretty much like the correct factory chassis black XXX Rear Wheelhouse are as described above - they are sound and attach around the full circumference of the wheel lip with a smooth seam. The rear quarter drops still have the factory drains in them as well as the rear rubber plugs. They are about 75% condition and have minor deterioration, but the are original and did not need replacing Also - we think the original rotors and drums are on this car - and the rear axle is a positraction unit with a correctly date coded ring gear and housing XXX This is the original 1969 date coded ring gear and axle carrier - dated correctly for the build date of this car It is the correct 3.23 ratio posi for a Ram Air III Air Conditioned car The Posi Unit is in good shape and the inside of the housing is operating room sanitary for a 43 year old vehicle. Many guys put the correct paint marks and chalk marks back on their cars after a restoration - this one still has it's original paint marks on the inside of the rear axle housing and on the ring gear XXXXX This is one of the two engines that comes with this car - the one that is installed in the car is described later in the webpage This is the Ram Air III engine with original bore. This engine has the factory stamped VIN on it that matches the Pontiac Historic Services Documentation we have on the car and matches the cars Cowl Tag This is a super rare block just by itself - only 2099 total YZ Ram Air III engines were produced in 1969 and most of them are long gone - most GTOs have engines claimed to be claimed SR coded 'service replacement' blocks. Here we have one with the original bore This IS NOT the engine that is currently installed in the vehicle. This engine is a YZ code Ram Air III with the original VIN stamped on the block with the correct casting date for the car, with earlier dated 16 heads, and correct date coded intake, RA IV crank , full windage tray, and center drain oil pan is included with the sale. This is the correct 4 bolt main drilled block with 2 bolt caps which is 100% correct for this car May of 1969 dated casting for a June of 1969 car XXXXX The center drain oil pan is included as well as the full length windage tray. We disassembled this bottom end and had this block cleaned a couple years ago and it has been on the stand in the garage ever since. I have kept it misted with WD40, but we live in a humid environment and it has developed minor surface rust - the bores are original spec and since it has never been bored I would assume .030 would clean it up perfectly. The heads are a pair that was redone in the 1980s and never run. The car had incorrect heads and intake on it when we got it so I am including these heads with the correct 16 castings, but they are slightly earlier than the build date, but not out of the realm of possibility. The intake is a L 21 68 intake which is correct for an early 1969 build car XXXXX This is the correct 9790071 casting 4 bolt drilled block with the correct 2 bolt caps for the Ram Air III XXXXX May of 1969 dated casting for a June of 1969 build car - super rare considering only 2099 YZ 400s were produced one can assume around 175 or less could have been made in any given month. The casting date lines up wonderfully with the 'in the white' build date of this chassis. XXXXX XXX The casting dates, stamped dates and tags on electrical items on this car all match with the factory stamped VIN number on this block and the cowl tag dates. Nothing looked to be later than these dates. This along with the Secretary of State certified records request on the title and VIN and the PHS documentation is what we have to substantiate this car. This car had all of its T3 headlights in place and all of the painted yellow amber bulbs in the sockets when we bought it. I doubt anyone messed with this car since the 1980s XXX The buyer of this car gets TWO Pontiac 400 engines - the one pictured to the left which is currently installed in the car and what we feel was the original Ram Air III 400 complete with big valve #16 heads, correct intake, crankshaft and never been bored block that is pictured above As mentioned above the original, standard bore, never blown up or rebuilt YZ code Ram Air III with the original VIN stamped on the block along with the correct casting date for the car, with earlier dated 16 heads, and correct date coded intake, RA IV crank , full windage tray, and center drain oil pan is included with the sale. This is NOT the engine pictured at left. I will be including pictures of that engine on the stand - it is disassembled for inspection. The engine to the left is a low mileage 1973 GTO/Formula XN code 400. This engine runs great, does not blow any smoke and does not leak a single drop of oil. I have included pics of the internals just to show it was within spec for a mild duty bearing and gasket slap. We actually wound up having over $2500 bucks in the thing after we bought the engine and parts - nothing is cheap any more - I have a list of the costs and what was put in the engine on the build webpage, but long story short it was bearings, gasket set, oil pump, timing set HEI, Jet Performance Quadrajet and a few other things XXX The engine still looks clean in the car, but it does have a few thousand miles on it. The car before paint can be seen in this picture - it was very clean and had very little rust issues. As I have repeatedly mentioned I have a page with the car prior to work available for serious bidders and participants in this auction. It has a list of parts and costs on this engine too. This engine has good torque and moves the car around nicely - I have several videos at the bottom of the page showing it running and driving. I do not drive this car hard - I have many other cars with built drivetrains and suspensions that are far more capable - I just enjoy driving this one easy and this engine fits that purpose just fine. It will spin the tires and scoot the car sideways if you try, but it is just a stock engine. A buyer could always rebuild this engine or the Ram Air III to modern specs and have a surprisingly powerful engine if they wanted. We did put a Jet Performance Q-Jet on it though for drivability. It is a Chevy form factor carb, but it works very well. Overall the engine runs pretty smooth once it is warmed up with good throttle response and manners for a 39 year old motor I do not have Ram Air III exhaust manifolds for the car although they are fortunately available in reproduction for a very reasonable price Below is the inside of the oil pan just as we found it - all I did was wipe it out - it looked like a factory gasket. No sludge, and very little varnish There was a small weld repair on the bottom UNDER the baffle, but that looked like someone poked it moving the engine or maybe even when it was in the car and fixed it without pulling anything - it sure wasn't from the inside. I didn't bother to do anything more with it - it is exactly how we got it XXXXX XXX We did nothing to this engine besides clean it, paint it, measure it, put new rod bearings in and an oil pump and put it back together. I was surprised to find the original bearings in decent shape, the rods still pretty much round and the crank in spec for eccentricity. Crank eccentrically was within the smallest tolerances of the measuring instrument and within book spec. Journal surface looked nice on all throws. Rod big ends were within spec and inside the smaller tolerances of the bore gauge. Wrist pins felt free with no slop or play. You could read all the bearing numbers and nomenclature on the rod big end and on the bearing - something seldom seen even 30 years ago when you sourced an old Pontiac engine On top of the mic'ing of the journals ad the bore gauging of the rods all the way around we plastigauged the clearances just for the heck of it with an extra new bearing - all were under the larger spec of clearance XXX Here is a copy of the PHS and the NADA price reports - the lower one is from last year, the higher one is from February 2012. These cars were way up there in value at the peak of the heyday. It is currently insured for full high retail today with a major Collector Car insurer I am very realistic as to what the current market is on these cars. The days of free money cash out home equity stupidity and ever climbing muscle car prices are probably gone for ever although based on some of the asking prices I still see maybe a few guys don't understand that yet. I also realize the color change and State Assigned VIN impact value. More importantly however, I also know that a SOLID strong and straight car has an higher intrinsic value just by itself and I have personally sold original Ram Air and HO engines for very good money just by themselves before - most cars seen for sale do not have the original Ram Air engines anywhere to be found, and if they do have them they have already been broken and rebuilt several times. This one comes with a standard bore original engine. I have recently seen cloned LeMans' sell for over $20,000.00 and nice rotisserie GTOs bring into the 70Ks even in this bad economy - some did just a few weeks on here I will entertain reasonable offers - cash only - absolutely no cashiers checks and paypal immediately on auction close for a small deposit - If you are not capable of doing a cash deal you will need to contact the seller PRIOR TO BIDDING to arrange other terms. The hold period on any other form of payment will be lengthy - possibly 30 days, so the best solution for both the buyer and the seller is a cash transaction - this car will not be released to a person showing up on the pickup day with a cashiers check under any circumstances so forget about even trying it I have owned numerous collector cars and sold quite a few on ebay with a 100% positive feedback rating for all those sales so my terms are very fair and well founded XXX Here is a shot of the cowl tag - it matches the PHS data and the original VIN on the Ram Air III block shown above XXX Here is just a fraction of the receipts on this car - as a matter of fact this is just a batch of receipts from over the last few months from after I decided I was going to sell the car - about $5000.00 bucks was spent just right here to get it ready with minor detail type things - Anyone familiar with Pontiacs will recognize the blue Ames paperwork and will certainly know when the invoices are full top to bottom on the page that is a pricey and expensive invoice We have over $30,000.00 in this car not counting the original price of the car, taxes, insurance or storage. Anyone that thinks they can pick up an old muscle car that needs repairs on ebay for a cheap price - say $10-15,000.00 and do the rest themselves for a low budget is sadly mistaken- either you will wind up spending far more than you figured or it will never get done. I have owned over 150 collector cars over the last 38 years and most of them were muscle cars, and I still own quite a few - I am well familiar with the costs associated with improving, keeping and maintaining these cars XXX Here is a copy of the title when we bought it showing the car to be a GTO XXX I have gone to great lengths and expense to research this car. Proof of this is here in a certified stamped and sealed records request on the VIN and title history. What can be fully determined from this is that the state assigned VIN was issued way back in the 1980s when these cars had zero collector value. I also did a NICB nationwide insurance database check on both VINS to see if there was ever a total loss or theft reported - none was found Copies of all these records will be given to the buyer Feel free to contact me with any questions about this car and be sure to include a phone number if you want detailed answers - it is far easier to communicate via telephone as opposed to email when many specifics need to be addressed and I will not be able to email back and forth numerous times I feel I have gone above and beyond describing and researching this car - In return for that effort I want a buyer that will be happy with the purchase and that will feel that they got a car they can enjoy. I know my family certainly loves it and I am always asked when going somewhere "Can we take the white GTO?" I am also selling our rare 1972 Trans Am project in another listing - I would be open to decent offers on a package deal for the two XXXXX XXXXX XXXXX XXXXX XXXXX XXXXX XXXXX XXXXX XXXXX XXXXX XXX This is a video demonstrating the hidden headlights functioning XXX This is a video demonstrating the sound of the car at idle - this was shot on a mid 30s degree temperature day this past February - the fog coming out of the pipes is vapor naturally XXX This is a video demonstrating the car being driven. The 4 barrel can be heard opening as other cars are passed. The car was not floored and passing gear was not kicked down - this was just 3rd gear and torque You can thank ebay management for the following increasingly more strict terms of these auctions All items are as described and as is - No excuses or stories and we expect the same from our buyers. We want you to be happy with your purchase, so please ask any questions that you need answered - look at the pictures, carefully read the description and ask any questions in advance of bidding because it is your responsibility to insure you are going to be happy with this purchase, not ours. This is cash only sale with an immediate downpayment due via Paypal at the end of the auction. If you are not capable of doing a cash deal you will need to contact the seller PRIOR TO BIDDING to arrange other terms. The hold period on any other form of payment will be lengthy - possibly 30 days, so the best solution for both the buyer and the seller is a cash transaction - this car will not be released to a person showing up on the pickup day with a cashiers check under any circumstances so forget about even trying it This is a 43 year old vintage collector vehicle so this car is offered "AS- IS, WHERE-IS", with no warranty or guarantee, expressed or implied, as to its condition, fitness for use or fitness for a particular purpose. Information in the description section does not insure or guarantee overall condition of the vehicle and is not intended to be comprehensive. All information provided is our understanding of the condition and history of the vehicle from what we have been able to determine through research and discovery. In no way can any positive proof or guarantee of this information be established, provided or proven by the seller or even a buyer for that matter - Based on this caveat, a purchaser or disappointed bidder shall have no recourse against the seller as this is a 43 year old vintage collector vehicle being sold as is - The seller reserves the right to cancel any auction. The seller will not be held liable for any such cancellation and/or closure. Your bid is a binding agreement to buy not to come and look - According to EBAY POLICY your bid is a legal binding contract to purchase by law. Ebay continues to change their terminology on this policy, but the most recent version can be viewed here - http://pages.ebay.com/help/buy/bidding-overview.html Non paying bidders can be considered in breach of contract and handled as a delinquent account by law and submitted to our collection agency for collections which may include a restocking fee, storage or holding costs, late fees and all ebay charges